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	<title>Comments on: Eight Million Stories in the Naked City</title>
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	<description>The Contemporary Classical Music Community</description>
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		<title>By: Joseph Benzola</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3191</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Benzola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“to recognize the lifetime achievement of an American composer whose works have been widely performed and generally acknowledged to be of lasting significance.”

I am not a big Zorn fan but I would have to admit that if you investigate the total body of his work dating back to the late 1970&#039;s until present, I can think of no other American composer (besides for Anthony Braxton who should be a recipient) who has demonstrated such a unique and creative sound universe and vision as John Zorn. For my criteria in judging a creative musician/composer, Zorn certainly belongs in the group of recipients mentioned as do many other &quot;non-winners&quot;...but that is a different post. Again, his work has never resonated with me but he is a very deserving winner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“to recognize the lifetime achievement of an American composer whose works have been widely performed and generally acknowledged to be of lasting significance.”</p>
<p>I am not a big Zorn fan but I would have to admit that if you investigate the total body of his work dating back to the late 1970&#8242;s until present, I can think of no other American composer (besides for Anthony Braxton who should be a recipient) who has demonstrated such a unique and creative sound universe and vision as John Zorn. For my criteria in judging a creative musician/composer, Zorn certainly belongs in the group of recipients mentioned as do many other &#8220;non-winners&#8221;&#8230;but that is a different post. Again, his work has never resonated with me but he is a very deserving winner.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3163</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Seth/Dan: your thoughts?&lt;/i&gt;

Well, my opinions on musico-academia have been expressed numerous times before. I&#039;m generally not it&#039;s biggest fan, and I find it has a record of artistic conservatism that can be - as you put it - stifling. I &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; there are exceptions, of course, and some schools are better than others - and my impressions are primarily based on &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; college days (late 80s / early 90s) and on the writings of those who came before me - but I&#039;ve listened to many student compositions in the years since, and those by fresh-out-of-school composers with degrees in hand and... I find myself hearing a lot of the same. And when it&#039;s &quot;different&quot; it&#039;s usually kitschy and/or self-conscious about it.

But then these are &lt;i&gt;conserv&lt;/i&gt;atories after all...

I&#039;ve made reference to - but I&#039;ll mention again, for those who&#039;ve never read it - Dana Gioia&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.danagioia.net/essays/ecpm.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Can Poetry Matter?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; as a parallel to what&#039;s happening in the world of &quot;academic&quot; music. Only I think the situation for composers of such is much, much worse.

I think it&#039;s a combination of two things: first, the resistance to new ideas - especially those that have already proven themselves &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; of the ivory tower. There&#039;s a general reluctance to put the stamp of approval on anything - jazz, minimalism, electronics, whatever - that wasn&#039;t an in-house creation. Second is the intentional isolationism - the &quot;who cares if you listen?&quot; effect. And while one &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; make the music they want and not be concerned with popular approval, that sentiment is a step too far - it&#039;s not like saying &quot;who cares if you &lt;i&gt;like it&lt;/i&gt;?&quot; - it says that it doesn&#039;t even matter if anyone &lt;i&gt;pays attention&lt;/i&gt;. Except special people who &quot;get it&quot; - an academic music performance is kinda like those Bush &quot;Town Hall Meetings&quot; where everyone&#039;s been pre-approved beforehand, where you know everyone&#039;s already on the same page.

There are many reasons behind it all - don&#039;t feel like going into detail now, I&#039;ll spare y&#039;all the sociohistorical rant (which would just be a rehash of one of my old ones, anyway) - but the end result is a womb of sorts. Only an infertile one.

But then it seems this thread is already off that whole subject and onto &quot;Is Babbitt / serialism mathematical or not?&quot; instead. Hmm. My opinion? If I go to a restaurant and every entree tastes like ass, I&#039;m not gonna waste my time debating the details of the chef&#039;s technique.

-------

Whoever it was above that talked about hearing so much different music at NYC student concerts: well, that &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; true. But there&#039;s a reason. And that&#039;s because, whatever the jealous haters may say, we &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; the Center Of The (Artistic) Universe. (So just get over it, everyone else, and accept that all y&#039;all cities are fighting over second place.)

Um, point being - students in NYC can&#039;t help but experience a multitude of different musics every day. That&#039;s one of the great things about living here, how much outside your normal realm that you&#039;re exposed to, even unwittingly. And that has two effects: first, whether you like it or not it expands your horizons. Second, because people &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; this about NYC, it tends to attract students who want to embrace that, who already have very open views and progressive ways of thinking. Every student in the arts I know here - and I know a lot of them - says that the school they chose, only half the reason was the school itself. The other half was location. There&#039;s such a plethora of schools here, a clear majority of them didn&#039;t even bother looking at schools in other cities.

------

Oh, and one more vote for bringing back the &quot;preview&quot; button.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Seth/Dan: your thoughts?</i></p>
<p>Well, my opinions on musico-academia have been expressed numerous times before. I&#8217;m generally not it&#8217;s biggest fan, and I find it has a record of artistic conservatism that can be &#8211; as you put it &#8211; stifling. I <i>know</i> there are exceptions, of course, and some schools are better than others &#8211; and my impressions are primarily based on <i>my</i> college days (late 80s / early 90s) and on the writings of those who came before me &#8211; but I&#8217;ve listened to many student compositions in the years since, and those by fresh-out-of-school composers with degrees in hand and&#8230; I find myself hearing a lot of the same. And when it&#8217;s &#8220;different&#8221; it&#8217;s usually kitschy and/or self-conscious about it.</p>
<p>But then these are <i>conserv</i>atories after all&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve made reference to &#8211; but I&#8217;ll mention again, for those who&#8217;ve never read it &#8211; Dana Gioia&#8217;s <a href="http://www.danagioia.net/essays/ecpm.htm" rel="nofollow"><i>Can Poetry Matter?</i></a> as a parallel to what&#8217;s happening in the world of &#8220;academic&#8221; music. Only I think the situation for composers of such is much, much worse.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a combination of two things: first, the resistance to new ideas &#8211; especially those that have already proven themselves <i>outside</i> of the ivory tower. There&#8217;s a general reluctance to put the stamp of approval on anything &#8211; jazz, minimalism, electronics, whatever &#8211; that wasn&#8217;t an in-house creation. Second is the intentional isolationism &#8211; the &#8220;who cares if you listen?&#8221; effect. And while one <i>should</i> make the music they want and not be concerned with popular approval, that sentiment is a step too far &#8211; it&#8217;s not like saying &#8220;who cares if you <i>like it</i>?&#8221; &#8211; it says that it doesn&#8217;t even matter if anyone <i>pays attention</i>. Except special people who &#8220;get it&#8221; &#8211; an academic music performance is kinda like those Bush &#8220;Town Hall Meetings&#8221; where everyone&#8217;s been pre-approved beforehand, where you know everyone&#8217;s already on the same page.</p>
<p>There are many reasons behind it all &#8211; don&#8217;t feel like going into detail now, I&#8217;ll spare y&#8217;all the sociohistorical rant (which would just be a rehash of one of my old ones, anyway) &#8211; but the end result is a womb of sorts. Only an infertile one.</p>
<p>But then it seems this thread is already off that whole subject and onto &#8220;Is Babbitt / serialism mathematical or not?&#8221; instead. Hmm. My opinion? If I go to a restaurant and every entree tastes like ass, I&#8217;m not gonna waste my time debating the details of the chef&#8217;s technique.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Whoever it was above that talked about hearing so much different music at NYC student concerts: well, that <i>is</i> true. But there&#8217;s a reason. And that&#8217;s because, whatever the jealous haters may say, we <i>are</i> the Center Of The (Artistic) Universe. (So just get over it, everyone else, and accept that all y&#8217;all cities are fighting over second place.)</p>
<p>Um, point being &#8211; students in NYC can&#8217;t help but experience a multitude of different musics every day. That&#8217;s one of the great things about living here, how much outside your normal realm that you&#8217;re exposed to, even unwittingly. And that has two effects: first, whether you like it or not it expands your horizons. Second, because people <i>know</i> this about NYC, it tends to attract students who want to embrace that, who already have very open views and progressive ways of thinking. Every student in the arts I know here &#8211; and I know a lot of them &#8211; says that the school they chose, only half the reason was the school itself. The other half was location. There&#8217;s such a plethora of schools here, a clear majority of them didn&#8217;t even bother looking at schools in other cities.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Oh, and one more vote for bringing back the &#8220;preview&#8221; button.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[in terms of sounds, chance methods are no different than 12-tone methods, harmonic structures, counterpoint, or microtonal constructions ... in my opinion. the difference lies in whether a piece of music is worth listening to repeated times, or not. for me, this concept defines classical music. classical music never gets old. no one can be taught how to write an enduring piece of music. at the same time, the more a composer learns about the nature of music, the better ... whether in a university, or on one&#039;s own.

since these words are coming from a performer ... and one who has no interest in composition ... composers are free to ignore me. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in terms of sounds, chance methods are no different than 12-tone methods, harmonic structures, counterpoint, or microtonal constructions &#8230; in my opinion. the difference lies in whether a piece of music is worth listening to repeated times, or not. for me, this concept defines classical music. classical music never gets old. no one can be taught how to write an enduring piece of music. at the same time, the more a composer learns about the nature of music, the better &#8230; whether in a university, or on one&#8217;s own.</p>
<p>since these words are coming from a performer &#8230; and one who has no interest in composition &#8230; composers are free to ignore me. <img src='http://www.sequenza21.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tom DePlonty</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3154</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom DePlonty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Going back to Babbitt -- I&#039;m not a fan of his music either, but the conception of his music as completely mathematical, mechanical, and &quot;objective&quot; is oversimplified.  If you take the man at his word, anyway.  Some interesting things he had to say in his interview with William Duckworth, in the book &quot;Talking Music&quot;:

Duckworth: How do your ideas come to you?

Babbitt: Well, it&#039;s a very interesting question, but the answer, I hate to say, is I don&#039;t know. I&#039;m simply incapable of knowing when I think &quot;Hey, this is right.&quot;

Duckworth: When you begin a piece, do you know where it&#039;s going?

Babbtt: I never start writing a piece unless I have a conception of the piece.

Duckworth: All the way through?

Babbitt: A huge conception of the piece.  Otherwise, you&#039;ll write down that wonderful first page with every dynamic, everything set, and realize you don&#039;t know where the piece is going.  And it completely inhibits you from continuing.  And that&#039;s certainly the way I feel about influences.  I can&#039;t possibly imagine what goes into when I finally make a decision.  If I really wrote music mathematically, I wouldn&#039;t have that problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going back to Babbitt &#8212; I&#8217;m not a fan of his music either, but the conception of his music as completely mathematical, mechanical, and &#8220;objective&#8221; is oversimplified.  If you take the man at his word, anyway.  Some interesting things he had to say in his interview with William Duckworth, in the book &#8220;Talking Music&#8221;:</p>
<p>Duckworth: How do your ideas come to you?</p>
<p>Babbitt: Well, it&#8217;s a very interesting question, but the answer, I hate to say, is I don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m simply incapable of knowing when I think &#8220;Hey, this is right.&#8221;</p>
<p>Duckworth: When you begin a piece, do you know where it&#8217;s going?</p>
<p>Babbtt: I never start writing a piece unless I have a conception of the piece.</p>
<p>Duckworth: All the way through?</p>
<p>Babbitt: A huge conception of the piece.  Otherwise, you&#8217;ll write down that wonderful first page with every dynamic, everything set, and realize you don&#8217;t know where the piece is going.  And it completely inhibits you from continuing.  And that&#8217;s certainly the way I feel about influences.  I can&#8217;t possibly imagine what goes into when I finally make a decision.  If I really wrote music mathematically, I wouldn&#8217;t have that problem.</p>
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		<title>By: David Laganella</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3153</link>
		<dc:creator>David Laganella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scott, I think your missing the my point of my comparison. The individual pitches are selected intuitively through out the score - unlike the ordered  (pre composed) pitch treatment of rows in 12-tone compositions. Messiean selects any pitch he wishes from the Mode at any given moment and does not follow the 12 tone strict order of going through all pitches from a selected row before starting a new row. Modes does not follow a 12-tone method. It may bare similarities to Integral Serial Music but it really isn&#039;t that either. 

I by no means compose music like this either but Messiaen&#039;s compositional procedures (and music) have held my interest for a long time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, I think your missing the my point of my comparison. The individual pitches are selected intuitively through out the score &#8211; unlike the ordered  (pre composed) pitch treatment of rows in 12-tone compositions. Messiean selects any pitch he wishes from the Mode at any given moment and does not follow the 12 tone strict order of going through all pitches from a selected row before starting a new row. Modes does not follow a 12-tone method. It may bare similarities to Integral Serial Music but it really isn&#8217;t that either. </p>
<p>I by no means compose music like this either but Messiaen&#8217;s compositional procedures (and music) have held my interest for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3152</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No.  A &quot;mode,&quot; which for Messiaen is a very loaded term, exists independently of the ordering of its elements.  A row, or series, or whatever term you want to use, is what it is partly by virtue of the compositional emphasis placed on ordering.  Hence &quot;serial.&quot;  &quot;Modes, rows, whatever&quot; is the entire point.

&quot;Mode de valeurs et d&#039;intensites&quot; is not constructed with reference to ordering.  Hence it is not serial.  

Its title has a very specific meaning in the context of Messiaen&#039;s idiosyncratic musical vocabulary.  A &quot;mode&quot; is a predetermined set - an &lt;i&gt;unordered&lt;/i&gt; set - of elements, usually of pitches, as in Messiaen&#039;s own beloved &quot;modes of limited transposition&quot; - i.e. modes with symmetrical properties. In this etude, the &quot;mode&quot; consists not only of pitches but also of durations and dynamics - in fixed constellations, comprising an &lt;i&gt;unordered&lt;/i&gt; set of elements from which the composer selected without any undue emphasis on the idea of &quot;structural ordering.&quot;  It has much less to do with &quot;total serialism&quot; than with Cage&#039;s &quot;gamut&quot; idea, q.v. the String Quartet in Four Parts in particular, where Cage&#039;s &quot;mode&quot; involved pitches, articulation, and instrumentation. 

The importance of &quot;Mode de valeurs et d&#039;intensites&quot; for Messiaen&#039;s students et al. lay in its atomistic structural use of dynamics and duration - thus totally separating dynamics in particular from the agogic and expressive role it had held for 250 years -, the precompositional separation of duration from rhythm, and the structural equation of rhythm/dynamics/pitch as equally weighted.

clear? now back to writing my safe music.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.  A &#8220;mode,&#8221; which for Messiaen is a very loaded term, exists independently of the ordering of its elements.  A row, or series, or whatever term you want to use, is what it is partly by virtue of the compositional emphasis placed on ordering.  Hence &#8220;serial.&#8221;  &#8220;Modes, rows, whatever&#8221; is the entire point.</p>
<p>&#8220;Mode de valeurs et d&#8217;intensites&#8221; is not constructed with reference to ordering.  Hence it is not serial.  </p>
<p>Its title has a very specific meaning in the context of Messiaen&#8217;s idiosyncratic musical vocabulary.  A &#8220;mode&#8221; is a predetermined set &#8211; an <i>unordered</i> set &#8211; of elements, usually of pitches, as in Messiaen&#8217;s own beloved &#8220;modes of limited transposition&#8221; &#8211; i.e. modes with symmetrical properties. In this etude, the &#8220;mode&#8221; consists not only of pitches but also of durations and dynamics &#8211; in fixed constellations, comprising an <i>unordered</i> set of elements from which the composer selected without any undue emphasis on the idea of &#8220;structural ordering.&#8221;  It has much less to do with &#8220;total serialism&#8221; than with Cage&#8217;s &#8220;gamut&#8221; idea, q.v. the String Quartet in Four Parts in particular, where Cage&#8217;s &#8220;mode&#8221; involved pitches, articulation, and instrumentation. </p>
<p>The importance of &#8220;Mode de valeurs et d&#8217;intensites&#8221; for Messiaen&#8217;s students et al. lay in its atomistic structural use of dynamics and duration &#8211; thus totally separating dynamics in particular from the agogic and expressive role it had held for 250 years -, the precompositional separation of duration from rhythm, and the structural equation of rhythm/dynamics/pitch as equally weighted.</p>
<p>clear? now back to writing my safe music.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3151</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, I&#039;m sorry, but I just don&#039;t think these &quot;typical 12-tone procedures&quot; for choosing what row goes where exist.  Maybe this is where I depart from the history books, but I just don&#039;t think there is a &quot;typical.&quot;  If what you&#039;re saying is that Schoenberg chose his &quot;rows&quot; (a term he didn&#039;t use) in a typical way, remember that he invented that type.  Meanwhile, Berg and Webern, his star pupils, both did completely different things with the choosing of rows; different than each other and from Schoenberg.  And Babbitt is also extremely idiosyncratic in his choices.  So yes, Messaien&#039;s &quot;Modes&quot; are not much like anyone else&#039;s choices, but you could say the same about pretty much anyone writing music with all 12 tones at once.  Also, you&#039;re trying to distinguish &quot;row&quot; from &quot;mode,&quot; but Schoenberg himself called it all sorts of things, none of them &quot;row,&quot; so I don&#039;t think you can argue that the styles are completely different because of different semantics.  Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I&#039;m a tonality-loving, major-chord-writing composer of the most shamelessly romantic sort, but that doesn&#039;t mean I can&#039;t show some love and props to my 12-tone homies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I&#8217;m sorry, but I just don&#8217;t think these &#8220;typical 12-tone procedures&#8221; for choosing what row goes where exist.  Maybe this is where I depart from the history books, but I just don&#8217;t think there is a &#8220;typical.&#8221;  If what you&#8217;re saying is that Schoenberg chose his &#8220;rows&#8221; (a term he didn&#8217;t use) in a typical way, remember that he invented that type.  Meanwhile, Berg and Webern, his star pupils, both did completely different things with the choosing of rows; different than each other and from Schoenberg.  And Babbitt is also extremely idiosyncratic in his choices.  So yes, Messaien&#8217;s &#8220;Modes&#8221; are not much like anyone else&#8217;s choices, but you could say the same about pretty much anyone writing music with all 12 tones at once.  Also, you&#8217;re trying to distinguish &#8220;row&#8221; from &#8220;mode,&#8221; but Schoenberg himself called it all sorts of things, none of them &#8220;row,&#8221; so I don&#8217;t think you can argue that the styles are completely different because of different semantics.  Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I&#8217;m a tonality-loving, major-chord-writing composer of the most shamelessly romantic sort, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I can&#8217;t show some love and props to my 12-tone homies.</p>
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		<title>By: David Laganella</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3145</link>
		<dc:creator>David Laganella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scott  - the treatment of the &quot;mode&quot; is not handled in a twelve-tone &quot;row&quot; fashion. Even though the 2nd Vienese guys composed with great thought the pitch material in their rows, they proceeded to order the rows in their music  (for the most part) by the typical 12-tone prodecures.  Messiaen composed his modes, &quot;assigned&quot; other music parameters to the pitches in the mode - then composed in an intuitate manner not following 12-tone or any other process for the realization of the work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott  &#8211; the treatment of the &#8220;mode&#8221; is not handled in a twelve-tone &#8220;row&#8221; fashion. Even though the 2nd Vienese guys composed with great thought the pitch material in their rows, they proceeded to order the rows in their music  (for the most part) by the typical 12-tone prodecures.  Messiaen composed his modes, &#8220;assigned&#8221; other music parameters to the pitches in the mode &#8211; then composed in an intuitate manner not following 12-tone or any other process for the realization of the work.</p>
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		<title>By: David Toub</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3144</link>
		<dc:creator>David Toub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scott, my sentiments exactly. I&#039;ve written strict 12-tone works. I continue to use serial elements in much of my music, albeit in my own voice and when I want to (several sections of my recent piece &quot;for philip glass&quot; are 12-tone, yet postminimalist just the same). So it&#039;s not as if anyone, Babbitt included, picks series based on some mathematical construct. Certainly, some folks have constructed series that have particular attributes, like combinatoriality or all-interval rows, but I haven&#039;t done anything like this in nearly 30 years, and in any case, most rows are derived musically, not mathematically.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, my sentiments exactly. I&#8217;ve written strict 12-tone works. I continue to use serial elements in much of my music, albeit in my own voice and when I want to (several sections of my recent piece &#8220;for philip glass&#8221; are 12-tone, yet postminimalist just the same). So it&#8217;s not as if anyone, Babbitt included, picks series based on some mathematical construct. Certainly, some folks have constructed series that have particular attributes, like combinatoriality or all-interval rows, but I haven&#8217;t done anything like this in nearly 30 years, and in any case, most rows are derived musically, not mathematically.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2007/03/eight-million-stories-in-the-naked-city/comment-page-1/#comment-3143</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/308#comment-3143</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David - you said, &quot;Again - the pitch selection through out the work (Modes) was intuitive, there was nothing &#039;serial&#039; about that.&quot;  But it&#039;s not as if Alban Berg just rolled some dice and picked a 12-tone row at random, and then played eeny-meeny-miney-moe to pick which row form goes where.  There&#039;s a great deal of musical intuition, aesthetic decision-making, and artistic temperament that goes into the masterful arrangement of pitches in any well-written piece of music, including serial music.  Intuition always has a great deal to do with it.  It seems that no matter what happens, there&#039;s still this persistent image of a composer choosing notes willy-nilly, and screwing over his/her own musical ideas for the sake of math.  I&#039;ve never met nor heard of anyone doing this, including Babbitt; I love one particular piece of his guitar music, which is remarkably flamenco-influenced and 12-tone at the same time, and that&#039;s not an accident, but rather an excellent sense of musical intuition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; you said, &#8220;Again &#8211; the pitch selection through out the work (Modes) was intuitive, there was nothing &#8216;serial&#8217; about that.&#8221;  But it&#8217;s not as if Alban Berg just rolled some dice and picked a 12-tone row at random, and then played eeny-meeny-miney-moe to pick which row form goes where.  There&#8217;s a great deal of musical intuition, aesthetic decision-making, and artistic temperament that goes into the masterful arrangement of pitches in any well-written piece of music, including serial music.  Intuition always has a great deal to do with it.  It seems that no matter what happens, there&#8217;s still this persistent image of a composer choosing notes willy-nilly, and screwing over his/her own musical ideas for the sake of math.  I&#8217;ve never met nor heard of anyone doing this, including Babbitt; I love one particular piece of his guitar music, which is remarkably flamenco-influenced and 12-tone at the same time, and that&#8217;s not an accident, but rather an excellent sense of musical intuition.</p>
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