Comments on: Chen Yi’s Olympic Fire – More From the Proms

By: David Rakowski

David Rakowski — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:51:07 +0000

Going for the odd-numbered symphonies — how very, um, Beethoven. But first movement of the eighth — in Beethoven, it would be the finale. And the other two movements that aren’t the first. I could be wrong. But if I had a choice between the first movement of the Beethoven 8 and hives, I’d take the hives. Which is way off-topic.

Clunky octaves — well, I put the iPod on to play the Previn recording of the VW sixth, and didn’t find any. Galumphing — definitely, in the second theme of the first movement, and maybe half a bar in the scherzo. So “we are at an impasse.” (Princess Bride)

David S, I enjoyed reading your response. Keep it up.

By: Rodney Lister

Rodney Lister — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:29:36 +0000

Glad you all like VW6, which, I admit, is not one of my favorites (I go for 3, 5, 9, & 1–also 8 first movement). I can’t quote chapter and verse
at the moment (and will, under pressure, as Tom Leherer said, not only retract my statement, but be willing to swear under oath that I never made it), but the place I was thinking about was in the scherzo–somewhere. (And even though it’s an isolated place, I would be willing to–there–stand by the adjectives clunky and galumpfing.

By: David Salvage

David Salvage — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:01:00 +0000

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!!! Yeah, I thought my first comment wasn’t worthy of elaboration or argument. I was just chatting…

By: Nathan Brock

Nathan Brock — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:13:32 +0000

I think David’s and Tom’s comments were concerning the octave issue in the discussion of the V-W Sixth, rather than in your concerto. I’d also like to know about it – the “clunky galumphing octaves” you mention, where they appear, the specifics of the orchestration that makes them appear that way, instead of “disappear[ing] into the orchestral texture.”

By: David Salvage

David Salvage — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:00:40 +0000

In the passage in question, both hands of the pianist play the same notes in the same rhythm–steady eighth notes. The register is low-middle. I wrote the passage thusly: the left hand plays octaves; the right hand plays the same line, an octave higher, but in single notes. Danielpour suggested I use octaves in the right hand as well so that the passage would project better.

But extended passages in which the pianist’s hands are stretched build up tension. When you relax your hand, you contract the hand; allowing the hands to close releases tension. This I learned playing Liszt’s Mephisto Waltz as a teenager.

Had I used octaves in the right hand instead of single notes, the right hand would have become more tired because I would have thereby required the hand to stay in a stretched position (playing loudly) for a good amount of time.

The recapitulation of the movement, subsequent to the passage in question, has similarly fatiguing parts; and these parts are also pretty loud. (The pianist who played it, a great player, himself commented on how fatiguing the piece was to play physically.)

By writing the passage as I did–single notes in the right hand instead of octaves–I actually allowed the pianist to conserve energy for the end. Were I to take Danielpour’s suggestion, the pasage in question would be more thunderous, sure; but the pianist would have had less energy to thunder on through the end.

Am I clear now?

By: Tom Myron

Tom Myron — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:28:20 +0000

I’ll second the 6th & also request clarification on the octave issue. I’m not getting you.

By: David Rakowski

David Rakowski — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:39:17 +0000

WTF? First, I want to say I love the Vaughan Williams Sixth (old Sandow kitsch article notwithstanding). But this thing about octaves … makes no sense whatsoever.

By: David Salvage

David Salvage — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:33:55 +0000

Rodney–I’m really glad for the comments about orchestration in this and your previous post. I remember Danielpour telling me in my piano concerto that the piano at one point would project better if the passage were in double-octave, rather than having the left-hand only play octaves while the right hand was in single notes.

He was right, I’m sure. But the piece is fatiguing. Now I believe I was right to have written it the way I did: the pianist may not have had the energy to get through the louder passages toward the end of the movement had he spent his energy on a big double-octave passage earlier.