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	<title>Comments on: 20 composers X a $50 dollar application fee = a self-funded commission</title>
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	<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/</link>
	<description>The Contemporary Classical Music Community</description>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-23096</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-23096</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian. Sorry, I actually found a link to your post on a theatre blog, and didn&#039;t mean to misrepresent you. Either way, your essay was enjoyable!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian. Sorry, I actually found a link to your post on a theatre blog, and didn&#8217;t mean to misrepresent you. Either way, your essay was enjoyable!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian David Moss</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-23094</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian David Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-23094</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Christian (I was just about to leave one here). One thing though, I don&#039;t think I would consider myself a member of the theatrical community! I&#039;m a composer just like all of you, and one of my pieces was even performed at the first S21 concert.

Great discussion, all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Christian (I was just about to leave one here). One thing though, I don&#8217;t think I would consider myself a member of the theatrical community! I&#8217;m a composer just like all of you, and one of my pieces was even performed at the first S21 concert.</p>
<p>Great discussion, all.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-23089</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-23089</guid>
		<description>Our conversation about this topic has been taken up by colleagues from the theatrical community: 

http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2010/02/submission-fees.html

http://createquity.com/2010/02/eighth-blackbird-and-the-ethics-of-pay-to-play.html?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed:+Createquity+(Createquity.)&amp;utm_content=Twitter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our conversation about this topic has been taken up by colleagues from the theatrical community: </p>
<p><a href="http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2010/02/submission-fees.html" rel="nofollow">http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2010/02/submission-fees.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://createquity.com/2010/02/eighth-blackbird-and-the-ethics-of-pay-to-play.html?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed:+Createquity+(Createquity" rel="nofollow">http://createquity.com/2010/02/eighth-blackbird-and-the-ethics-of-pay-to-play.html?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed:+Createquity+(Createquity</a>.)&amp;utm_content=Twitter</p>
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		<title>By: Brian M Rosen</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22992</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian M Rosen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22992</guid>
		<description>The sad fact is, contemporary composition isn&#039;t a growth industry.

Think of it this way.  How many hours have you already spent composing your chamber sextet?  Have you been compensated for any of that time?

If you have, then congrats!  You&#039;re way ahead of the game.  If you haven&#039;t, then the measly $50 entry fee seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the much greater loss of at least $25 per hour&#039;s worth of your time.

Complaining about entry fees feels a little pennywise, poundfoolish to me.

No one owes us anything. Not even their attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sad fact is, contemporary composition isn&#8217;t a growth industry.</p>
<p>Think of it this way.  How many hours have you already spent composing your chamber sextet?  Have you been compensated for any of that time?</p>
<p>If you have, then congrats!  You&#8217;re way ahead of the game.  If you haven&#8217;t, then the measly $50 entry fee seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the much greater loss of at least $25 per hour&#8217;s worth of your time.</p>
<p>Complaining about entry fees feels a little pennywise, poundfoolish to me.</p>
<p>No one owes us anything. Not even their attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Philipp Blume</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22928</link>
		<dc:creator>Philipp Blume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22928</guid>
		<description>Do we not also pay application fees to get into graduate school, and don&#039;t the competitive places sometimes accept only one student per academic year? How is this different? If you don&#039;t like the odds of this competition, do not enter. Wrong way!

What 8bb is doing is conforming to an economic model, the one that surrounds them here in the United States. Whether that economic model is good for the future and good for the arts in particular I very much doubt, but I&#039;m glad that someone like 8bb is actually following through with the consequences. It&#039;s a valid reaction to the situation (=dire) of the arts in the age of turb0-capitalism.

A second valid reaction, admittedly less effective, is to complain.

A third valid reaction is to set up more generous, more progressive funding mechanisms for things like this, which will always be politically precarious. That is what we do nowadays and could do more of. Precariousness be damned! ...even as such band-aids don&#039;t solve the underlying problem.

All three reactions come to terms with reality in their own way. The 8bb solution shouldn&#039;t be demonized, because it&#039;s one way among many and probably the most effective in helping the ensemble thrive at the level it&#039;s at today without sacrificing its commitment to music that&#039;s difficult to bring to life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we not also pay application fees to get into graduate school, and don&#8217;t the competitive places sometimes accept only one student per academic year? How is this different? If you don&#8217;t like the odds of this competition, do not enter. Wrong way!</p>
<p>What 8bb is doing is conforming to an economic model, the one that surrounds them here in the United States. Whether that economic model is good for the future and good for the arts in particular I very much doubt, but I&#8217;m glad that someone like 8bb is actually following through with the consequences. It&#8217;s a valid reaction to the situation (=dire) of the arts in the age of turb0-capitalism.</p>
<p>A second valid reaction, admittedly less effective, is to complain.</p>
<p>A third valid reaction is to set up more generous, more progressive funding mechanisms for things like this, which will always be politically precarious. That is what we do nowadays and could do more of. Precariousness be damned! &#8230;even as such band-aids don&#8217;t solve the underlying problem.</p>
<p>All three reactions come to terms with reality in their own way. The 8bb solution shouldn&#8217;t be demonized, because it&#8217;s one way among many and probably the most effective in helping the ensemble thrive at the level it&#8217;s at today without sacrificing its commitment to music that&#8217;s difficult to bring to life.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22927</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22927</guid>
		<description>We have all made our mistakes in navigating how to do our work, but this is shocking. It is the kind of approach one expects from a new ensemble, unfamiliar with the field and working with composers. But then, 8bb has never had particularly strong community interaction, having been guided early on by success-driven agendas. It is very sad though, that a &quot;leading&quot; new music ensemble, one that has been quite rewarded and honored by the field, would set this kind of example for a &quot;Composer Competition&quot;. It is embarrassing, and demonstrates their disconnect with the wider new music community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have all made our mistakes in navigating how to do our work, but this is shocking. It is the kind of approach one expects from a new ensemble, unfamiliar with the field and working with composers. But then, 8bb has never had particularly strong community interaction, having been guided early on by success-driven agendas. It is very sad though, that a &#8220;leading&#8221; new music ensemble, one that has been quite rewarded and honored by the field, would set this kind of example for a &#8220;Composer Competition&#8221;. It is embarrassing, and demonstrates their disconnect with the wider new music community.</p>
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		<title>By: Cariwyl Hebert</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22926</link>
		<dc:creator>Cariwyl Hebert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22926</guid>
		<description>Application fees are not at all exploitive. Especially in times like these, when most non-profits and most arts and culture groups are struggling, we shouldn&#039;t expect free admission to contests from which we&#039;ll benefit. In fact, I think Eighth Blackbird&#039;s charging $50 per submission is very smart. 

Sure, we don&#039;t enjoy whipping out the credit card for things like this, but it&#039;s a necessary part of doing this sort of business in this day in age. I recently paid a $45 fee to have my application considered for participation in a program that would help boost my organization&#039;s stature. Did I want to pay it? No. But I knew it was necessary and I didn&#039;t think it was at all unreasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Application fees are not at all exploitive. Especially in times like these, when most non-profits and most arts and culture groups are struggling, we shouldn&#8217;t expect free admission to contests from which we&#8217;ll benefit. In fact, I think Eighth Blackbird&#8217;s charging $50 per submission is very smart. </p>
<p>Sure, we don&#8217;t enjoy whipping out the credit card for things like this, but it&#8217;s a necessary part of doing this sort of business in this day in age. I recently paid a $45 fee to have my application considered for participation in a program that would help boost my organization&#8217;s stature. Did I want to pay it? No. But I knew it was necessary and I didn&#8217;t think it was at all unreasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Fried</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22893</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Fried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22893</guid>
		<description>Dennis, I think the entry fee should be $1000 , for each band member.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, I think the entry fee should be $1000 , for each band member.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Jane Leach</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22889</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Jane Leach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22889</guid>
		<description>Bravo, Dennis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Dennis.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2010/02/20-composers-x-a-50-dollar-application-fee-a-self-funded-commission/comment-page-2/#comment-22885</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=2585#comment-22885</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m nearly crying - that&#039;s the funniest thing I&#039;ve seen all day :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m nearly crying &#8211; that&#8217;s the funniest thing I&#8217;ve seen all day <img src='http://www.sequenza21.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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