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	<title>Comments on: Osvaldo Golijov: Thief? Collaborator? Genius?</title>
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	<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/</link>
	<description>The Contemporary Classical Music Community</description>
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		<title>By: MishMosh</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26704</link>
		<dc:creator>MishMosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Both Golijov and Ward-Bergman could be in violation of mail fraud and perhaps their publisher as well. Orchestras that feel they were defrauded (due to lack of transparency with the original copyright holder i.e., not receiving an original composition) may wish to pursue the issue further with the United States Post Office. USPS defines Mail Fraud as &quot;to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services i.e., U.S. Mail is used to further a scheme&quot;. 

Orchestra Management could make a charge on &quot;Misrepresentation of Product/Service&quot;. There is more info at the Untied States Postal Service.  https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/MailFraud.aspx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both Golijov and Ward-Bergman could be in violation of mail fraud and perhaps their publisher as well. Orchestras that feel they were defrauded (due to lack of transparency with the original copyright holder i.e., not receiving an original composition) may wish to pursue the issue further with the United States Post Office. USPS defines Mail Fraud as &#8220;to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services i.e., U.S. Mail is used to further a scheme&#8221;. </p>
<p>Orchestra Management could make a charge on &#8220;Misrepresentation of Product/Service&#8221;. There is more info at the Untied States Postal Service.  <a href="https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/MailFraud.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/MailFraud.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: BipperBali</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26651</link>
		<dc:creator>BipperBali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[And Ward-Bergman&#039;s piece sounds like a Yann Tiersen rip off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Ward-Bergman&#8217;s piece sounds like a Yann Tiersen rip off.</p>
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		<title>By: BipperBali</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26650</link>
		<dc:creator>BipperBali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[And I love how it&#039;s a bigger crime that InstantEncore posts this Sidereus performance illegally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I love how it&#8217;s a bigger crime that InstantEncore posts this Sidereus performance illegally.</p>
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		<title>By: BipperBali</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26646</link>
		<dc:creator>BipperBali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 03:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=7142#comment-26646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You all know this is small beans either way right? Just because 35 orchestras chipped in money doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s a lot of money in total.
And te speculation about this that is flying around is laughable. So big deal, some collaborators worked on a piece and one person got credit. I believe that&#039;s the case with 95% of rock songs. Has Mick Jagger ever written a drum part? No but he&#039;s credited as songwriter all the time.
And that melody rip off that Coldplay did a couple years ago was a direct lift on a song that sold millions. The allegations that I&#039;ve heard that DG was happy to sell records of the &quot;Golijov brand&quot; with others writing the music is nothing but laughable. Ayre and Oceana - I&#039;m sorry to ruin the illusion for people- but it probably sold 3,000-5,000 copies.

None of this is high stakes so let&#039;s everyone relax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all know this is small beans either way right? Just because 35 orchestras chipped in money doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s a lot of money in total.<br />
And te speculation about this that is flying around is laughable. So big deal, some collaborators worked on a piece and one person got credit. I believe that&#8217;s the case with 95% of rock songs. Has Mick Jagger ever written a drum part? No but he&#8217;s credited as songwriter all the time.<br />
And that melody rip off that Coldplay did a couple years ago was a direct lift on a song that sold millions. The allegations that I&#8217;ve heard that DG was happy to sell records of the &#8220;Golijov brand&#8221; with others writing the music is nothing but laughable. Ayre and Oceana &#8211; I&#8217;m sorry to ruin the illusion for people- but it probably sold 3,000-5,000 copies.</p>
<p>None of this is high stakes so let&#8217;s everyone relax.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Rudin</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26644</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Rudin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[THIRTY_FIVE orchestras commissioned the piece?  Good Lord.... what is the going price these days for 9 minutes of Golijov (or maybe 4 1/2)??  How do I GET me some of that??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THIRTY_FIVE orchestras commissioned the piece?  Good Lord&#8230;. what is the going price these days for 9 minutes of Golijov (or maybe 4 1/2)??  How do I GET me some of that??</p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26643</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Charles,

It really doesn&#039;t matter if Golijob and Ward-Bergeman agreed to something. Did the commissioning organizations get what they paid for and agreed to? A new piece by Osvaldo Golijov? Whether you look at it as appropriation of &quot;Barbeich&quot; or reconfiguring &quot;Radio&quot; and &quot;Patagonia,&quot; Mr. Golijov took a lot of money from these organizations and didn&#039;t deliver what he promised. If a scientist did that, they&#039;d be compelled to return grant money and have their academic integrity questioned. Why should it be any different for a composer who is a college professor?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles,</p>
<p>It really doesn&#8217;t matter if Golijob and Ward-Bergeman agreed to something. Did the commissioning organizations get what they paid for and agreed to? A new piece by Osvaldo Golijov? Whether you look at it as appropriation of &#8220;Barbeich&#8221; or reconfiguring &#8220;Radio&#8221; and &#8220;Patagonia,&#8221; Mr. Golijov took a lot of money from these organizations and didn&#8217;t deliver what he promised. If a scientist did that, they&#8217;d be compelled to return grant money and have their academic integrity questioned. Why should it be any different for a composer who is a college professor?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Noble</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26642</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=7142#comment-26642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems like Ward-Bergeman and Golijov had an agreement in place, according to a conversation W-B had with Alex Ross: 


As it turns out, Ward-Bergeman knew what was happening. In a subsequent e-mail to Bob Keefer, he wrote, “Osvaldo and I came to an agreement regarding the use of ‘Barbeich’ for ‘Sidereus.’ The terms were clearly understood, and we were both happy to agree. Osvaldo and I have been friends and collaborators for years. I don’t have anything else to say about the matter.” Indeed, Golijov and Ward-Bergeman have worked side by side on various projects, including film scores, and “Barbeich” emerged from one such endeavor. The music has also gone by the name “Patagonia,” and was played by Chicago Symphony musicians in 2010, in a Golijov arrangement. (You can see a video of a rehearsal of “Patagonia” in Madrid last year, with Ward-Bergeman among the musicians and Golijov supervising in the foreground.)

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html#ixzz1n32rV0al

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like Ward-Bergeman and Golijov had an agreement in place, according to a conversation W-B had with Alex Ross: </p>
<p>As it turns out, Ward-Bergeman knew what was happening. In a subsequent e-mail to Bob Keefer, he wrote, “Osvaldo and I came to an agreement regarding the use of ‘Barbeich’ for ‘Sidereus.’ The terms were clearly understood, and we were both happy to agree. Osvaldo and I have been friends and collaborators for years. I don’t have anything else to say about the matter.” Indeed, Golijov and Ward-Bergeman have worked side by side on various projects, including film scores, and “Barbeich” emerged from one such endeavor. The music has also gone by the name “Patagonia,” and was played by Chicago Symphony musicians in 2010, in a Golijov arrangement. (You can see a video of a rehearsal of “Patagonia” in Madrid last year, with Ward-Bergeman among the musicians and Golijov supervising in the foreground.)</p>
<p>Read more <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html#ixzz1n32rV0al" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html#ixzz1n32rV0al</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-sidereus.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26641</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Nikitas,

Thanks for your comment. 

If you accept a commission from 35 organizations, it really doesn&#039;t matter that you have an understanding (which I assume might mean a financial arrangement) with another composer to appropriate his materials. If this was indeed basically a transcription instead of something that transforms the borrowed material, it shouldn&#039;t have been passed off as the work of a single author. 

Having listened to both pieces, I think that Mr. Golijov has some explaining to do, to the commissioners, any grant-giving organizations involved, his publisher, and his colleagues at College of the Holy Cross. If the problem is part of a persistent pattern, which is what is beginning to emerge in the media reports I&#039;ve thus far read, there could (and should) be consequences relating to all of the aforementioned parties.

A big tell, to me at least, that there&#039;s some substance to these allegations: they come on the heels of other late and unfinished projects. Even the piece in question was delivered substantially shorter than was agreed upon in the terms of the commission. When you factor in that &gt;50% of it doesn&#039;t appear to be original work, that&#039;s a big problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikitas,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. </p>
<p>If you accept a commission from 35 organizations, it really doesn&#8217;t matter that you have an understanding (which I assume might mean a financial arrangement) with another composer to appropriate his materials. If this was indeed basically a transcription instead of something that transforms the borrowed material, it shouldn&#8217;t have been passed off as the work of a single author. </p>
<p>Having listened to both pieces, I think that Mr. Golijov has some explaining to do, to the commissioners, any grant-giving organizations involved, his publisher, and his colleagues at College of the Holy Cross. If the problem is part of a persistent pattern, which is what is beginning to emerge in the media reports I&#8217;ve thus far read, there could (and should) be consequences relating to all of the aforementioned parties.</p>
<p>A big tell, to me at least, that there&#8217;s some substance to these allegations: they come on the heels of other late and unfinished projects. Even the piece in question was delivered substantially shorter than was agreed upon in the terms of the commission. When you factor in that &gt;50% of it doesn&#8217;t appear to be original work, that&#8217;s a big problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Ereus</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26640</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Ereus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequenza21.com/?p=7142#comment-26640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it&#039;s pretty shocking that &quot;RADIO&quot;, commissioned by WNYC, is the same piece as &quot;Sidereus&quot; and &quot;Barbeich&quot;!  How can that be?!   Forget &quot;Barbeich&quot; for a second, how did nobody of the 35-orchestras commissioning &quot;Sidereus&quot; figure out that the material was exactly the same as &quot;Radio&quot;?

by the way, here&#039;s a more direct link to &quot;Radio&quot;:
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/articles/music-hub/2009/dec/31/ethel-robert-glasper-roy-nathanson/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s pretty shocking that &#8220;RADIO&#8221;, commissioned by WNYC, is the same piece as &#8220;Sidereus&#8221; and &#8220;Barbeich&#8221;!  How can that be?!   Forget &#8220;Barbeich&#8221; for a second, how did nobody of the 35-orchestras commissioning &#8220;Sidereus&#8221; figure out that the material was exactly the same as &#8220;Radio&#8221;?</p>
<p>by the way, here&#8217;s a more direct link to &#8220;Radio&#8221;:<br />
<a href="http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/articles/music-hub/2009/dec/31/ethel-robert-glasper-roy-nathanson/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/articles/music-hub/2009/dec/31/ethel-robert-glasper-roy-nathanson/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenza21.com/2012/02/osvaldo-golijov-thief-collaborator-genius/comment-page-1/#comment-26639</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Decide for yourselves folks:
Barbeich by Ward-Bergeman:
http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=40575619&amp;ac=now

Sidereus by Golijov:
http://www.instantencore.com/work/work.aspx?work=5056243

On listening, it&#039;s actually pretty clear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Decide for yourselves folks:<br />
Barbeich by Ward-Bergeman:<br />
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=40575619&#038;ac=now" rel="nofollow">http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=40575619&#038;ac=now</a></p>
<p>Sidereus by Golijov:<br />
<a href="http://www.instantencore.com/work/work.aspx?work=5056243" rel="nofollow">http://www.instantencore.com/work/work.aspx?work=5056243</a></p>
<p>On listening, it&#8217;s actually pretty clear.</p>
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