Comments on: The Conservatory

By: oboeinsight » Blog Archive » I Agree

oboeinsight » Blog Archive » I Agree — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:02:48 +0000

[...] Barring extraordinary circumstances, I would urge any student not to attend a conservatory for their undergraduate years. (RTWT) [...]

By: paul bailey

paul bailey — Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:55:50 +0000

having taught in private and public institutions its my observation that any any music school technique can easily be over emphasized at the expense opening a score and understanding what is going on.

i strongly feel that any student that has good work ethic and an open mind can be successful. i think its easy for the more affluent families to feel that entrance to the more elite academic institutions and music conservatories guarantees a ‘career’ which leads to the uninspired outcomes many of these institutions create; young adults who chase a ‘career’ instead of ‘ideas’.

By: James Sproul

James Sproul — Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:30:30 +0000

I agree, some good points. and probably all very poignant to David. However, I agree, this kind of thing can never be universal. Personally, I agree that the conservatory atmosphere is not always the best for growth, but that depends on the person. I believe strongly in liberal educations and learning about everything you can get your hands on, but that can be done in any environment, it doesn’t take a traditional college, it takes a good student. In fact some times, in my experience, traditional colleges thwart those kinds of endevours. After all, especially in dealing with the arts, it is all so interconnected, (music performance, composers, art and artists, authors, poets, philosophers etc…) we should be learning it all, so that we can understand all of its connections, or at least make the attempt at understanding, you never know who, or what idea, is going to spark the thought that gets turned into a masterpiece.

By: Paul H. Muller

Paul H. Muller — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:49:09 +0000

I think David Toub makes some valid points about the value of a liberal education.

One of the smartest kids I ever knew went to Rochester specifically because he could have a double major – engineering and music. And he did it in 4 years – a truly exceptional individual. Last I heard he was pulling down big bucks at a Washington think tank and playing the pipe organ at the National Cathedral from time to time.

I think you could make a case in a liberal arts college that music only be taken as a second major or as a minor. The thought of graduating from a Bradley or any other good small school with a degree in music is daunting. Kids these days often go into considerable debt to finish a 4-year program and they are counting on a good job later to help pay off the loans.

Sad to say, the state of music these days pretty much requires a person to have a day job – so the forward-looking universities should be taking reality into account when working out their requirements for a degree in music.

By: Steve Cartwright

Steve Cartwright — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:05:22 +0000

In response to David Toub’s comments, most scientists I know are interested in a wide variety of subjects. I’m a physicist with an undergraduate degree from a midwestern liberal arts college (Bradley University. Jerry Hadley was a student there at the same time.). As a freshman I was trying to decide between physics and music as major. A physics professor worked out a way to take sufficient classes for both. I settled on physics, figuring I could be a physicist with music as a hobby better than I could be a musician with physics as a hobby. Plus I have no talent. And the music students were kind of jerks who had trouble with the idea of a non-musician in their midst. So here I am years later, a middle-aged physicist who composes in his spare time and lurks on new music sites hoping to learn something. (I never got over that no talent problem.) The point of all this is that because I went to a liberal arts school I learned about music and many other things, all of which make me a better person and citizen. Now I’m the audience for those music students who didn’t think I belonged with them.

If I as a scientist benefitted from learning music, then musicians also benefit from learning science. And literature. And economics. All of it broadens your horizons and may eventually work its way into your music, either in what you write or how you perform. If nothing else, you have to live in the real world, so you might as well learn what everybody else out there is up to.

By: marty

marty — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:37:54 +0000

Follow Harry Partch’s lead: go to the public library and educate yourself!

By: Robert Jordahl

Robert Jordahl — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:54:39 +0000

If I had it to do all over again, I would probably begin with a liberal arts degree.
Instead, I was so focused that I took three degrees in music. and, I must admit
that much of the coursework was a waste of time.

By: jeff harrington

jeff harrington — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:05:22 +0000

David, that’s exactly what a VERY rich composer friend of mine at Juilliard was told by his parents. (Imagine thick Park Ave. accent).

Dahhhhling, but Juilliard is juuuuust a ‘trade school.’

By: rama gottfried

rama gottfried — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:42:26 +0000

Yes, life is rough! :) and full of odd turns. just like good music. I don’t think anything in the world is remotely a waste of time. Granted, I have often wished that I was more ambitious when I was younger, but then again, I was a first a wierdo DJ, and then played pschedelic guitar rock music at parties, and really had no idea that I had an orchestral composer in me until I was 20. It just wasn’t part of my upbringing up in vermont to go see the orchestra. however, was it the right decision? maybe if where I am now is where it leads! viva la adventure!
that all said – i’ve been impressed with my undergrad friends at the manhattan shcool of music, quoting Hagel and everything. brats! but fun brats. but they’ve probably never seen the bread and puppet theater.

By: david toub

david toub — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:04:22 +0000

I couldn’t agree more that music schools and conservatories are wastes of time. Before I get flamed, I’d like to say that my reasons for this relate to the fact that people, be they musicians, composers, nuclear physicists, writers, journalists, etc., would benefit greatly from a liberal arts education, preferably one with a common core of studies that teaches one how to think critically. I don’t remember half of what I studied in college, but it did teach me how to think, which is invaluable.

I’ve known many people in the physical sciences who were not well-rounded, who knew physics and that’s that. That’s fine—perhaps it makes them good at what they do, I don’t know. But it also makes for a boring group of individuals who know little, and care little, for anything outside their field. This is no different in music. Sure, there’s benefit to be had in hanging out with performers, etc. So do it in grad school, after one has had a well-rounded education. Music school is a trade school, and is fine at preparing people for a particular musical career. But it doesn’t give a very rounded education, and I just think musicians/composers especially need to be exposed to other disciplines.

I also think a conservatory education is…well…conservative. And limiting.